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Post by jeepinjp on Dec 7, 2010 8:24:36 GMT -5
"It doesn't just have to be jeep clubs either." That's what's been bugging me. This group is jeep/4x4-heavy, and it seems that to some, the rest of us are just tolerated here as guests. If this group intends to present itself as a true coalition, that attitude has to disappear. I'm sorry Nan, I just don't see that. The Jeep people are the ones who started this whole coalition, they were the first to jump in. In a short period of time, we got a nice variety of members to this forum and the coalition is growing by leaps and bounds. Out of the first membership applications I got, there was a variety of interests represented. This group is always going to be "4x4 heavy" because most of us on here have 4wd vehicles/Jeeps, myself included. It is the main form of travel out in the pines. I am thankful to the Jeep clubs for steeping up to the plate and believe they are a valuable asset to this group. I am curious though, about what you mean by attitude. And what you mean by the statement that you feel like you are tolerated as a guest? bayberry I think one of the main reasons it seems 4x4 heavy as you say is that they(we) are the group under attack and motorized recreation is the user group at risk here. It doesn`t have to be 4x4(OHV) heavy but we cant make other user groups join up. |
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Post by tneigel on Dec 7, 2010 16:43:20 GMT -5
Informational on the Batona Trail.
Help in Maintaining the trail is organized by two main groups, not counting what the park system itself does.
From Batsto East to Bass River - OCSJ
From Batsto North to Ongs - Batona club of Philly
These clubs have organized events once or more a year and some do trail maintenance inbetween. It would be nice to put this on the list, and we can mention any cleanup events through them.
Some info from the OCSJ on this:
TRAIL MAINTENANCE
Leaders be aware that the Club is now a participating member in the New Jersey Parks VIP (Volunteers In Parks) program. This means that trail maintenance we organize in State Parks is to be run through the VIP Program. This requires notifying the park before the activity, and sending a copy of our sign-in sheet to the
park. We are not permitted to use power tools of any type. Trail maintenance done on trails not on NJ State Park property must be reviewed by the board for coverage.
OCSJ has a trail maintenance event in conjunction with the Batona Club on March 6th. Will keep you updated.
tneigel
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Post by yellowdog on Dec 8, 2010 17:01:24 GMT -5
I feel that it is difficult to judge the feelings of a person/group based solely on written word on a forum. This is why the open monthly meetings are important. Face to face interaction is a good way to judge sincerity. I have seen gipsie,mudboy and russ reaching out and inviting others to join and I know that others on here are working hard to include everyone. face to face is best..vocal inflection and eye to eye contact are important to understand people what i get as the WHOLE POINT of this site is to unite different trail use groups in a common cause of keeping trails open, clean and safe for everyone |
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Post by yellowdog on Dec 8, 2010 17:03:23 GMT -5
now to actually do this officially do we need to present it to the superintendent as an idea..?
i'd really like to see this happen
edit : i just read the above thrread on Batona..so cleaning up has to be "approved" what is "maintenance" is it painting? cleaning?
,making this unweidly defeats the purpose ..there should be a simple way to commit and work..it is "volunteering"
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Post by bayberry on Dec 10, 2010 19:45:46 GMT -5
I'm sorry Nan, I just don't see that. The Jeep people are the ones who started this whole coalition, they were the first to jump in. In a short period of time, we got a nice variety of members to this forum and the coalition is growing by leaps and bounds. Out of the first membership applications I got, there was a variety of interests represented. This group is always going to be "4x4 heavy" because most of us on here have 4wd vehicles/Jeeps, myself included. It is the main form of travel out in the pines. I am thankful to the Jeep clubs for steeping up to the plate and believe they are a valuable asset to this group. I am curious though, about what you mean by attitude. And what you mean by the statement that you feel like you are tolerated as a guest? bayberry I think one of the main reasons it seems 4x4 heavy as you say is that they(we) are the group under attack and motorized recreation is the user group at risk here. It doesn`t have to be 4x4(OHV) heavy but we cant make other user groups join up. The phrase "It doesn't just have to be jeep clubs either." just sound like, "gee, these other guys could join us, too", as if no one else has been out there working to preserve the Pine Barrens. Look at Tom Neigel's post - the Batona Hiking Club has been doing it sine 1961. I've been cleaning up bits of Wharton for ages, and led formal clean-ups for geocachers starting in 2004. There's the idea - expressed in the term "enviros" - that people who are not primarily 4-wheelers are wrong to be concerned with the damage done by the jerks. If you can't get the environmentalists on your side, you're lost. And you can't get them using a term that sound like a slur. Some people may need to be reminded that without that "enviros", the Wharton Tract would be one big Cherry Hill with a jetport in the middle. Do you want a true coalition? Or just want 4 wheelers who are ALSO geocachers, hunters, horse riders, etc. so that you can SAY that all are represented? I know some of the people here, and know where their hearts lie, and that keeps me hanging on, hoping that the answers I get are the ones I can live with. Because I love my forest. And it is being destroyed. I'm a curmudgeon (also a semi-professional heckler-at-large) (hoping to be licensed soon). Convince me that you love the forest as more than a place to ride. Because if you can't convince ME, you'll never convince anyone else. |
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Post by yellowdog on Dec 13, 2010 10:52:35 GMT -5
This site is open to al voices..so if a vociferous amount happen to enjoy 4 wheeling ..so be it
THE HOPE is , is that ALL people who enjoy the trails and where they lead would join and post. I think that's the gist of the website.
I think it's great that people like you, jim and russ are on..it's why i post..there are a million "jeeping" sites
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Post by melcrim on Dec 13, 2010 11:37:01 GMT -5
Not sure if this is the right spot to post this or not. Dominic came up with a fantastic idea for a project.
Mrs. Lane's Cabin. That is the cabin just off 206 at the Mullica Canoe Launch. The cabin is state property and in good enough condition at this point to be saved. Right now it is empty. It has been boarded up but as of yesterday the boards have been ripped off and the door is open. He has called to report it many times and the state tries to keep on top of it but with limited resources it's difficult.
He got to talking with staff at the Basto and discussed the possibilty of a group "adopting" the cabin. He got a pretty positive response. I'm sure it would be a red tape battle but in the mean time if we could just get the OK to be able to maintain the boards on the windows and doors it may help from losing the cabin all together.
I have heard it's the oldest cabin in "the woods" what that means or if it's true I don't know. What I do know is that it would make a great project for our coalition. Once it's fixed up a bit it could make for a wonderful meeting/education/historical building. It's perfectly located for just such a purpose.
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Post by jag5119 on Dec 13, 2010 12:01:28 GMT -5
I'm a curmudgeon (also a semi-professional heckler-at-large) (hoping to be licensed soon). Convince me that you love the forest as more than a place to ride. Because if you can't convince ME, you'll never convince anyone else. What I am going to say some people might not like. But I do beleive that everyone hear is trying to stop the destruction and trashing of Wharton. But if what someone loves to do is to take a ride in the Forest, find a nice spot to have lunch, maybe meet up with some freinds in the camp site, and do it all while repsecting the environment and not trashing anything, then why should that person say that is not the main reason why he loves Wharton. In fact that is the great thing about it, you can take a ride and enjoy everything around you. As long as that person is still trying to make things better, why should that person have to state why they love the Forest? Please correct me if I misunderstood that comment. |
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Post by tneigel on Dec 13, 2010 12:50:21 GMT -5
Wow, the Mrs Lane Cabin thing is a great idea. Even if only to replace the protections and clean up a bit. I would love to help. I noticed the opened access and took some pics of the inside through the window. Amazingly it looks like a little house inside with plaster walls and such. Its such a good key point. "I'll meet you at the putin spot just down from the log cabin."
I always liked that spot. If you ever looked at the old photos of that road and cabin, its amazing how its changed. All except for the Sycamore tree on the side of the house. That is in the pictures from 80 years ago. When you look down the road in this picture you see that there are no trees. You can see the chimmey and building (known as the cotton mill), and even the blacksmith shop on the opposite side of the road. (you can still find foundation bricks if you look where it was)
You know I like that area and plan to redo the cache across from the cabin and make it a NJTLC cache. I also learned that you can't park your car at these places when boating overnight. Shame to come back to your car after doing the Mullica river and camp to find your battery gone and ignition wires pulled out for fun.
Hey, if any of you have never see the 4ft round slag balls from the old furnace, walk to the end of the road, behind the old cotton mill foundation, across the dry canal, and back 30 yards to the swamp line. Along the left side edge of the swamp, you'll see the large 4 ft slag balls. I really like all the blueish slag. The road is covered with it too.
This is an area that can be helped by educating folks. Its good to visit the area and learn, but the area gets vandalized a lot, like the park signposts ripped out of the ground. I wonder down the road if we can get permission to put some information boxes out there with hand outs describing the area. Information is a great teacher and helps to make a personal connection to the reader.
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Post by bayberry on Dec 13, 2010 14:03:51 GMT -5
There are a lot of people who'd enjoy riding in an old quarry just as much as riding in the woods. To them, it's just a place to ride.
Some of those people are concerned about their access being cut off. That's their only concern. When someone badmouths about "environmentalists" and "enviros", I have to wonder if his ride is all he cares about... and that he'd be just as happy riding through a destroyed forest.
I'd like to believe that everyone here respects the forest, but that doesn't always jibe with the words some people are using.
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Post by bayberry on Dec 13, 2010 14:10:00 GMT -5
Mrs. Lane's Cabin. That is the cabin just off 206 at the Mullica Canoe Launch. The cabin is state property and in good enough condition at this point to be saved. Right now it is empty. It has been boarded up but as of yesterday the boards have been ripped off and the door is open. He has called to report it many times and the state tries to keep on top of it but with limited resources it's difficult. He got to talking with staff at the Basto and discussed the possibilty of a group "adopting" the cabin. He got a pretty positive response. I'm sure it would be a red tape battle but in the mean time if we could just get the OK to be able to maintain the boards on the windows and doors it may help from losing the cabin all together. Dominic showed me the pictures of the inside of the cabin. I agree that boarding it up is the first step. It would be less attractive to vandals if it was being used regularly. If it could be made habitable (Dominic's idea to have a caretaker live on the 2nd floor, making the 1st floor available for meetings), then there may be grant money available. Maybe if the caretaker was a Veteran? |
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Post by lifewalk on Dec 13, 2010 14:30:39 GMT -5
I'd like to believe that everyone here respects the forest, but that doesn't always jibe with the words some people are using.[/quote][/b]
Care to elaborate. Did I miss a post or something? We are here to protect and preserve WSF among other forests. Whether we ride, camp, hunt, walk, or explore shouldn't matter. I do a little of it all. I have not come across a thread or post on here talking about other than preserving the Forest. can you fill me in?
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Post by jag5119 on Dec 13, 2010 14:37:18 GMT -5
First off I do agree with you. Using negative terms towards Environmentalist is not going to be a good way to get them to approach the table, and it does need to stop. And yes there will be plenty of people who would enjoy tearing up a quarry as much as tearing up the pines. But I don't beleive any of these people are on here. But I beleive that no one here needs to prove anything to anyone else here. If someone states that they would like to keep a certain trail open, and someone else objects then a debate should take place. And all points raised in that debate needs to be examined and a compromise must be met. This is the only way it works, If you are expecting anyone to constantly have to prove something to you...you are mistaken. |
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Post by medfordpiney on Dec 13, 2010 15:37:38 GMT -5
I think you guys might be mistaken words, ANYONE who loves and RESPECTS the forest is an environmentalist, the "enviros" mentioned here should be called Anti-Access or exclusionists. If your talking about the ones who want no one in the woods...
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Post by lifewalk on Dec 13, 2010 15:41:20 GMT -5
And as far as posting the word "enviros" I dont think anyone on here meant it in a negative way but just trying to shorten up on typing out the whole word Environmentalist. I could be wrong!
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