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Post by medfordpiney on Apr 21, 2011 7:55:54 GMT -5
Nice if she got the name of the group right... .....nor did I know NJTLC was started to help state authorities put these recommendations into action (the PPA's 12 point plan) "Individuals from various recreation and user groups have started a South Jersey Trail Lovers Coalition to help state authorities put these recommendations into action. All are welcome to join the group; details can be found at njtlc.proboards.com." www.njconservation.org/html/swi/04-15-11.htm |
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Post by HamiltonLJ on Apr 21, 2011 19:19:48 GMT -5
That's a flat out lie!!! We didn't start the NJTLC to help the PPA close trails or help them with their political beliefs. Nor was it started to help the NJCF! This was started to curb the destruction and educate the public! If this is the direction the group is going then I don't want nothing to do with it!!!!!
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Post by tneigel on Apr 22, 2011 10:01:51 GMT -5
Nah, don't quit. It doesn't matter what outsiders say, this is what njtlc says:
A. The New Jersey Trail Lovers Coalition is organized for the purposes of:
1. Developing and maintaining a spirit of cooperation, courtesy, and consideration among all the people of diverse recreational interests in New Jersey, by
a. Creating a membership that reflects a wide variety of outdoor recreational interests.
b. Meeting regularly with each other, with appropriate state agencies, and with other managers of open spaces to maintain good lines of communication.
c. Seeking constructive ways to resolve issues that may arise due to the various needs and preferences of the different users of our open spaces.
2. Promoting an ethic of guardianship for the open spaces of New Jersey, by
a. Promoting conservation of the natural resources of New Jersey.
b. Participating in and supporting volunteer activities for the betterment of open spaces.
c. Providing social, recreational, and educational activities for its membership.
d. Promoting safe, sensible, and responsible operation of motorized vehicles.
e. Developing and maintaining trail systems for motorized and non-motorized use.
f. Helping authorities, when called upon, in emergencies or for other urgent needs.
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Post by gregobrien on Apr 22, 2011 16:32:30 GMT -5
I would prefer that they not reference this coalition in their newsletter at all... let alone misrepresent what our purpose is and try to pass off their agenda as our mission-statement.
It's easy to get mad - but don't let it get under your skin too much. It's not the first time they've pulled this sort of thing and it won't be the last.
Just file all these little tidbits away for when they apply for affiliation status and present them to the members of the GC as a very real reason of why they can't be trusted.
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Post by HamiltonLJ on Apr 22, 2011 17:38:51 GMT -5
Well we have a NJCF employee and former PPA employee on the GC. This is why I don't understand why there is a misunderstanding! When this group started there was concern that the conservationist couldn't get anywhere with the state or local officials. This was why they wanted to join forces with us. (ie;the Offroad community) Well I'm really starting to believe this now! Answer me this. Why didn't the above mentioned well established organizations put the signs around 1/4 mile? Why did it take an upstart group to get the permission and cooperation to do this?
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Post by medfordpiney on Apr 23, 2011 13:11:57 GMT -5
I think a formal letter to NJCF and Michele Byers should be mailed explaining that NJTLC has no intentions to support the PPA "12 points" and WILL NOT help or support state authorities putting these recommendations into action.
This needs to be formally and strongly stated not just a request from Russ.
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Post by russ on Apr 23, 2011 16:53:31 GMT -5
I wish they had run this by me before they published it. I could have suggested some very helpful revisions.
In any case, I don't think it requires a call to arms or the conclusion that they can't be trusted. And, by the way, the statement referred to "these recommendations," not PPA or NJCF. Some of you may not be aware that the Founding Members actually helped me to revise those recommendations. Only one of them got strenuous objections, and that one has been deleted.
Remember, we are trying to build a coalition. We need to get in the habit of finding a diplomatic approach to situations that offend us, whether it is the environmental organizations, the state park police, the forest fire service. These are not adversaries. They are people we need to build relationships with.
In every instance, where someone posts a complaint against some other group, consider that you might spend that time more productively by calling someone in that group, and politely expressing your concern.
That's what some of the Jeep clubs did, when the situation at 1/4 mile got all that publicity. That's what Dave Demsey did when he objected to one of the points that was on PPA's original plan. In both of those cases, progress was made, and misunderstandings were solved.
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brad
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Post by brad on Apr 23, 2011 17:42:38 GMT -5
Russ, with respect, I did not join the ppa or njcf.
I joined njtlc
My wife and I will not volunteer our time using staplers.
We will, however, gladly help replant indigenous flora and repair mans impact.
I wish the ppa and njcf would focus on the tough things like urban sprawl, and leave the various user groups of the forest alone.
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Post by russ on Apr 23, 2011 18:05:36 GMT -5
Russ, with respect, I did not join the ppa or njcf. I joined njtlc My wife and I will not volunteer our time using staplers. We will, however, gladly help replant indigenous flora and repair mans impact. I wish the ppa and njcf would focus on the tough things like urban sprawl, and leave the various user groups of the forest alone. Well, at some point, NJTLC may need volunteers to operate staplers!  Seriously, nobody thinks that joining NJTLC means the same thing as joining PPA or NJCF. But when you joined NJTLC, you signed on to the idea of a coalition, which means that even though you disagree with some of the things other organizations say or do, you are committed to working with those folks on our mutual goals. And by the way, you can rest assured that attacking urban sprawl is one thing PPA and NJCF are big on, and it certainly is one of the things we all need to work together on. |
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brad
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Post by brad on Apr 23, 2011 18:50:26 GMT -5
Russ, with respect, I did not join the ppa or njcf. I joined njtlc My wife and I will not volunteer our time using staplers. We will, however, gladly help replant indigenous flora and repair mans impact. I wish the ppa and njcf would focus on the tough things like urban sprawl, and leave the various user groups of the forest alone. But when you joined NJTLC, you signed on to the idea of a coalition, which means that even though you disagree with some of the things other organizations say or do, you are committed to working with those folks on our mutual goals. No, when I joined the NJTLC I agreed to help and work with other forest users, not to be involved with the ppa or njcf. So, to say it again. If I wanted to join ppa or njcf I would have joined them. |
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fry
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Post by fry on Apr 24, 2011 19:55:59 GMT -5
While reading this post it seems a little confusing if the main goal of this group is to promote use of the forest or to eliminate use of it. The ultimate goal seems to be a little hazy. I thought we were all supposed to work together here so we can use the forest and maintain it so we can all enjoy it.
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trailhead00
New Member
I can ride in MD, PA and NY. Not in NJ?
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Post by trailhead00 on Apr 24, 2011 23:39:54 GMT -5
According to that article/newsletter ORV's damaged 343,000 acres in 2002 and it's worse now? So that means ORV's have damaged an area 3 times the size of the entire Wharton State Forest! I find that just a little unbelievable. In 2002 the total land area of New Jersey was 4,747,096 acres. So if you do the math ORV's allegedly destroyed approximately 7% of the entire state New Jersey. Right  Just to add me 2 cents in the mix. If I felt that the PPA and/or the NJCF could represent me in how I see fit then I would have joined them a long time ago, but they never have and never will see a single penny from me. I believe the NJTLC has my best interest at heart and I have been waiting quite a while for a group like this to form. |
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Post by russ on Apr 25, 2011 10:55:19 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's great that PPA and NJCF have directed their members to our site. That means they approve of our goals. I hope that any PPA and NJCF members that visit our forum understand that, in spite of the negative comments of a few of our members, they are welcome.
Probably, the biggest challenge we face is overcoming the prejudices and misunderstandings between those who see themselves as primarily conservationists, and those who see themselves primarily as motorized sports enthusiasts.
The truth is that most conservationsists want motorized access to natural areas, and most motorized sports enthusiasts understand the need to conserve these same areas.
NJTLC was started by people who were willing to make a fresh start at adult-level communication among people who had differences of opinion. Instead of perpetuating old vague grudges and dislikes, we took a look at a specific situation, discussed our specific differences of opinion, and worked together toward a resolution.
So, if you are a conservationist, and you are totally opposed to working with and understanding, and negotiating with the motorized sports clubs, then this is not the organization for you. The same thing applies to anyone who is too deeply prejudiced against the conservation organizations.
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Post by HamiltonLJ on Apr 25, 2011 18:56:39 GMT -5
Well said Russ especially the second half! But this is not true "Individuals from various recreation and user groups have started a South Jersey Trail Lovers Coalition to help state authorities put these recommendations into action." We didn't start the SJTLC it's NJTLC! We also didn't start this to help the state make laws or enforce them. Remember this - The goals and activities of the NJTLC include...
• Educating the public about the value of our open spaces.
• Raising awareness of the need to protect these places.
• Organize cleanup and maintenance parties as needed.
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fry
New Member
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Post by fry on Apr 25, 2011 19:19:41 GMT -5
Now that's pretty clear. Stick to the objectives of why this group was formed and hopefully see positive results.
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